The journey from scientific discovery to commercial success takes more than just a breakthrough – it requires strategic biotech leadership and vision. Steve Swan, a seasoned executive recruiter with 26 years in the biotech industry, reveals how companies navigate the complex path from laboratory research to market success. Swan shares insights on what makes biotech leaders effective, from securing funding in today’s challenging economic climate to building teams that combine scientific expertise with business acumen.
You’ll learn how successful biotech ventures like Roivant found opportunity in overlooked drug candidates, why gene therapy faces manufacturing challenges despite scientific progress, and which geographic hubs are leading biotech innovation in America.
Whether you’re considering a career transition to biotech or simply interested in how the industry can keep pushing for a brighter future, this conversation offers valuable perspective on leadership at the intersection of science and business.
—
Watch the episode here
—
Listen to the podcast here
About Steve Swan
Steve Swan stands at the helm of The Swan Group Executive Search Firm as its CEO and Principal, carving a niche in the Pharma/Biotech industries with a keen focus on IT.
His fervor for industry insights and a knack for bridging the gap between top professionals and industry demands have been instrumental in elevating organizations and propelling careers forward.
Steve helms the popular podcast “Biotech Bytes.” A show that offers a stage for dialogue with IT luminaries in Biotechnology and Pharmaceuticals. Each episode delves into the minds of industry trailblazers, unpacking best practices and strategies that shape the life sciences realm.
Steve’s academic background in Psychology has helped him to understand both parties’ deeper needs and motivations, which is paramount to delivering candidates who become long-term assets to the company. At the core of The Swan Group’s philosophy is the ability to discern and fulfill what success means for both candidates and clients.
Outside of work, Steve, once an avid mountain bike racer, has reignited his passion for cycling and aspires to traverse the U.S. on two wheels. He lives in New Jersey with his wife and two daughters.
The Educational Foundation of Biotech Leadership
Breaking into biotech leadership isn’t a casual career pivot. When asked about transitioning into the field, Swan emphasizes the importance of educational credentials, noting that even for technology roles, companies typically seek candidates with advanced scientific degrees.
“They really look for the folks even in IT that have at least a master’s, if not a PhD on the science side,” Swan explains. “Is that overkill? Maybe. But you can’t convince them of that. They want folks that are like them – they’re trained scientists and they’re credentialed scientists.”
This pattern creates an interesting pipeline where scientists often transition into technology roles within biotech when they identify technical needs that aren’t being met. “They don’t think IT is getting it done for them. So they’re scientists, doing their thing…then they start doing it, and then everybody on the science side says ‘Hey, can you do that for me?’ Next thing they know their whole domain’s growing.”
The Funding Challenge: From Ideas to Commercialization
Swan highlights the critical importance of securing sufficient funding in biotech, where the path from discovery to market is lengthy and expensive. “It takes a ton of money to get you all the way through your clinical trials,” he notes.
Illustrating the funding mindset needed, Swan shares: “I remember speaking to a guy in a PE firm who said, ‘When I talked to somebody who tells me they have funding to get 90% of the way there, I say to them, well, that’s great… if you had enough water to get 90% way across the desert, you’re still not making it.’ They want to hear you got enough money to get 120% of the way across.”
The economic climate has created a more challenging funding environment. “In the last three years, the funding and financing has changed because rates spiked so quick, and it was such a shock to the whole investment world. But biotech in particular, a lot of the things that really weren’t gonna make it got smoked out.”
The Roivant Success Story: Finding Value in Overlooked Assets
Swan shares his firsthand experience with Roivant Sciences, founded by Vivek Ramaswamy, as a case study in innovative biotech leadership. The company developed a revolutionary model of acquiring drug candidates that larger pharmaceutical companies had abandoned.
“He would take something literally off the scrap heap,” Swan explains, “and buy it from Pfizer for a couple hundred million dollars or whatever, get funding on that, and then sell it back to them for several billion.”
What made Roivant’s approach successful was their early adoption of data science and analytics. “They had this whole concept of digital innovation,” Swan recalls. “His CIO was awesome, an MIT guy… They built out a lot of different models for data science and analytics on everything. They were building it for HR, supply chain, finance, discovery, before anybody was doing that. And we’re talking 2017-ish, when people were just starting to think about that.”
Geographic Centers of Biotech Innovation
The biotech industry continues to concentrate around specific innovation hubs, primarily driven by proximity to top educational institutions. Swan identifies several key centers in the United States:
- Cambridge/Boston area (Kendall Square) – A mature hub with both R&D and commercial expertise
- San Francisco – A well-established biotech center
- San Diego – Strong in R&D but “less mature” with fewer commercial successes
- Philadelphia area – An emerging biotech center
- Chicago – “Making a run at it”
“They tend to follow the schools,” Swan observes, noting the connection between top research universities and biotech clusters.
The Next Frontiers: Gene Therapy and AI
Looking at current innovations, Swan points to gene therapy as a significant area of advancement. “The next thing that we’re into and what we’re doing now is a lot of the gene therapy… these companies are getting into taking your DNA and making a therapy personalized for you.”
However, he identifies a key challenge in this promising field: “The manufacturing is kind of the problem. They can only really make one batch at a time. One person makes one batch. It’s not like a real factory where they’re mass producing cars or pills. They’re making one batch at a time.”
Regarding artificial intelligence, Swan sees tremendous potential but cautions against overinflated expectations. “I think we’re out over our skis on AI. I think we’re putting too much in the AI basket yet. Will we get there? Sure.”
He believes AI’s current strengths in biotech are in data analysis and process improvement: “It’s doing some cool stuff – correlating data and helping with processing a ton of data and finding things in EMR and EHR data that they couldn’t find before.”
The Changing Workforce: Career Longevity and Purpose
The conversation touches on how professionals are rethinking career longevity. Swan shares his observations of industry veterans who aren’t ready to fully retire: “I talk to guys and girls in their late fifties, early sixties, and they’re like, ‘Steve, I’m kind of getting pushed down, but I got a lot to give. I want to do fractional work… I can’t just turn the light switch off.'”
These experienced professionals “work smarter, not harder. They want to show the young folks how to do it. They’re not looking for a huge paycheck… They just want to do good work.”
Call to Action
As biotechnology continues to advance and reshape healthcare, each of us has an opportunity to support and engage with these innovations. Whether through investing in promising research, advocating for balanced regulation that promotes innovation while ensuring safety, or simply staying informed about breakthroughs like the recent cure for sickle cell anemia, we all can play a role in advancing biotech’s positive impact.
The conversation between healthcare professionals and biotech leaders is crucial for creating a healthier future. By understanding the leadership and strategic challenges facing the industry, we can better appreciate how scientific breakthroughs transform into life-changing treatments and technologies that benefit us all.
If you haven’t listened to our episode on the future of biotechnology with Ron Cohen or the interview with Michael Schrader about biotech entrepreneurship, make sure to check them out.
Links
Transcription
This interview has been transcribed using AI technology. While efforts have been made to ensure accuracy, the transcription may contain errors.
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Futurist Society, where as always we are talking in the present, but talking about the future. A very special guest today. The name is Steve Swan. He is a thought leader in the biotech space and CEO and founder of the Swan Group. He also has a podcast called Biotech Bites.
And we’re gonna be talking about biotech today. I’m in the center of biotech, Kendall Square, and I love the all the different advancements and technological breakthroughs that are happening in biotech. So Steve is gonna give us his insight into how that is playing out for the future and what that holds for you guys at home.
So Steve, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into this, and a little bit about what you’re doing right now.
Sure. Thanks for having me. Um, so how did I get into this? So I, um, I went to school in Boston, love Boston. Anyway, um. Well, I’m an executive recruiter and I focus on the technology side of biotech. Right. So I’ve been doing this 26 years, um, got into the business because my mother started doing it 50 plus years ago.
Right. And, you know, as time’s been going by, I. Um, you know, in the recent past it’s just moving so, so, so quickly. But the technology that, you know, that’s out there or that’s coming is just changing everything so rapidly for everybody, you know, involved. And I just got enamored with the tech, the ai, the data, what it’s doing for the industry, both on the research and on the commercial side of things.
And just continue to, um, you know, help all these different thousands and thousands of biotechnology companies, which are in this. In our country and a lot of ‘ em up your way. Right. Um, to help find those, those awesome leaders or to help them really think through what they need in their leaders or what they need in their, uh, uh, uh, technology based on where they are in their lifecycle, based on what they need, you know, coming down the road and where they think they’re going.
You know, so it’s, it’s been fun. It’s been really exciting.
So first question that I wanted to ask you is that a lot of people in in my field in medicine will make this transition. To biotech and just from a purely selfish perspective, how does it, how does one do that? You know, like what I, I know that you’re actually looking at recruiting. Um, are you, are you also looking at people that don’t have a biotech background or is it something that you really have to start early and get kind of groomed into this field?
So I think you have to start early and get groomed into the field. It’s one of those things where, how do you get it if you don’t have it right? Um, you know, that’s, that’s kind of the base of it. But I’ll tell you the folks that are in medicine, I’ll go back to your. You know, where you started your, your comment there, the folks that are the scientists that are the ones that find these companies, right?
Because they’re the ones that have their, their, their, their molecule or their therapy or whatever, and then they start finding their company. They really look for the folks even in it, you, you’d be surprised that have at least a master’s, if not a PhD on the science side, you know? Um. Is that overkill?
Maybe. But you can’t convince them of that. Right? Because they want folks that are, um, are like them. You know, they, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re scientists and they’re trained scientists and they’re, you know, credentialed scientists. You know, even if you are. Only doing the technology work. You still need to really understand, you need to not only walk and talk like a duck.
You, you, you should have been a duck. Right? And now you’ve gotten a lot of these guys and girls, what they do is they get into it because. Quite frankly, they don’t think it is getting it done for them. So they’re scientists and they’re doing their thing and I’m just gonna make something up. Maybe they had an issue with some of their data and maybe collating it or this, that they’re like, you know what it, I got this, you know, I can do this on my own.
And then they start doing it, and then everybody in the science side says, Hey. Dude, you just did that for, can you do that for me? Next thing they know their whole domain’s growing. Now they got three people doing different, you know, so that, that’s what ends up happening. You know, that’s, that, that’s how things grew.
Um, and that’s sort of a function that I helped Regeneron build out a bunch of years ago where they had the, they had the same need and the same once, and, and it did the scientist.
Yeah, but what about the whole idea of being a startup? Right? Like I, I, I feel like from biotech, when I think about biotech, there’s two camps. You have these large companies like Pfizer and you know, Moderna, uh, and then you have a lot of startups that are happening specifically here in Kendall Square.
And like, if I was a, you know, I’m a surgeon and if I have an idea for something. How does one go about starting a company? Like, it’s not like, uh, a software company where you build out the software and then you just try to sell it. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s very different. Correct.
Well, it’s really different. Yeah. Well, what your issue’s gonna be is you can have a, like you just said, any, any company, whether it’s software, whatever, you gotta have a great idea, right? And, and clearly conviction in your idea. Um, the next real big step is getting others to see your vision. I. And the reason you’re doing that is to get funding and to get money, you know, and there’s, there’s, there’s either you’re gonna end up getting A-A-A-C-F-O or a fractional CFO that’s got experience taking folks public or, or, or getting that funding. Or you’re gonna work with companies like a, um, like a Danforth, Danforth Advisors works with, on the finance side with biotech. You know, they’re, they, they, they’re from Boston, they’re out of Boston.
Mm-hmm.
um, you know, but they’ve got tentacles everywhere. You know, uh, uh, uh, uh, San Francisco and such, and they just have folks that, you know, work with these companies on the finance side to help them get that funding and help ’em get the, the, the financing they need because it takes a ton of money.
You know, and you’re probably aware of this, it takes a ton of money to get you all the way through. You know, your clinical trials, getting your patients, so on and so forth. You know, I, I remember speaking to a guy in a PE firm and he said, you know, when, when I talked to somebody who tells me they have funding to get 90% of the way there, he said, I say to them, well, that’s great.
You know, if you had enough water to get 90% way across the desert, you’re still not making it. You know, they want to hear you got enough money to get 120% of the way across.
Mm-hmm.
That’s the real key and that’s what’s changed quite honestly. Uh, doc in, in, in the last I. Three years, um, the funding and the financing because rates spiked so quick and it was such a shock to, to the whole investment world.
But biotech in particular, you know, a lot of the things that really weren’t gonna make it got smoked out. But back then you only had to promise your money, your lenders, your money, folks, you know, a couple percent. Now you gotta promise what, 12% ish or something. And so that smoked out a lot of the companies.
So that smoked out a lot of those ideas and probably a good thing, you know.
Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, maybe I, I’m, I’m not sure if it’s a good thing like I, I. I think about, uh, you know, the, the past presidential candidate, Virum Swami, and he had this like. Extreme, um, upswing with buying, uh, I think FDA approved drugs and then marketing them differently. And I, you know, within the course of like five years, he took a, a company with zero income and it became a multimillion dollar company, which is that traditional. Um, story that you hear in like Silicon Valley or something like that. And from, from my perspective, I always hear about how difficult that is to do in biotech, but then you also hear of stories that, that people are doing that.
So I guess, you know, from your perspective, like how does that happen, number one. And also number two is like, um, is that now not possible with the amount of funding being so different?
Well, I’ll, I’ll answer that in reverse. I think the amount of funding is, to your point, yeah, there is a lot of funding. There’s a lot of folks chasing those kinds of things. They saw what he did and they were like, Hey, we could do this too. I, I, I had the pleasure of, I worked with that company. I placed a bunch of folks at that company, you know,
Okay.
at Roivant, right. Still in touch with a whole bunch of those folks. And in 2017, 2016, they called me and, and they were doing what they called their pipeline day. He spoke. I was in this auditorium with a hundred people, never knew who he was. I’m looking at this guy going, this guy’s like 35.
Mm-hmm.
He’s awesome.
Mm-hmm.
In my office, I go, can you do some homework on this guy? You know, I had just incredible, just amazing. So he had all his different CEOs get up there and, uh, uh, speak from his different, uh, uh, vans, his different organizations, and they were all seasoned vets. And, you know, he would take something literally off the scrap heap, right?
And, you know, buy it from Pfizer for a couple hundred million dollars or whatever, get funding on that, and then sell it back to him for several billion, you know, and, and then he ended up selling 10% of his Sumitomo. To, uh, well 10% of CTO of his company to Sumitomo creating Sumito vamp for a few billion dollars.
So yeah, it’s, it’s, he had, uh, a unique model and he took those molecules that they left for data they didn’t think were worthwhile, and he would take it all the way through the research process and get it commercialized and make it a viable product. So, um. How that happened was just, I, in my opinion, I think that some of these larger organizations, which is where some of those compounds and molecules that he was going after, didn’t see them as something they wanted to put some money into.
They didn’t see the ROI where clearly he did, and it worked for, you know, um, they’re, some of those big players are so big. That it’s, it’s, you know, they’re, they’re more supply chain, they’re more commercial, you know what I mean? And so as they’re running around hunting and looking for smaller targets, so lots of times they overpay ’cause they all get, um, uh, in, in a bidding war, you know, for these different companies because they have to buy their pipeline.
They’re not really building, they’re not making ’em now. ’cause they’re, they’re so big. They’re so big. They need to keep that supply chain and that commercial process alive. so they need things to push through it, and they probably didn’t see these drugs that he picked up as big enough for their, you know, machine, right.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
How that happened. I think they, uh, fell through the cracks and, and he had some smart people, had some smart people, uh, working for ’em and they could really get through it. And they were really, really big. They took a revolutionary approach where, where we got involved with them was. They had this whole concept of, of digital innovation.
His CIO was awesome, an MIT guy, and I still talk to him, still text him. And, um, they built out a lot of different models for, uh, uh, data science and analytics on, on everything. They were building it for they HR, supply chain finance, discovery, you know, before anybody was doing that. And we’re talking, like I said, 2017 ish, you know, and people were just starting to think about that then, you know, and, and they applied a lot of technology to what they were doing and it worked well for them.
Mm-hmm. I, I guess my question to you is that, is that Cinderella’s story atypical and is it possible right now in the field, or is it just, you know.
Now. Yes, I do think it’s possible. You know, other companies are doing it. They have been doing it. Um, you know, there, there’s, they have data. Data science data’s huge. I mean, there’s no way around that right now, you know, and to process all the data that all these companies have and to do it. Accurately and profitably, um, is gigantic for them. And it’s, it’s, it’s been a matter of the data that we’ve had is real structured kind of data, you know, so it’s, it’s, you gotta make it digestible for the technology that we have, um, that’s been changing real rapidly. That changes every, several weeks. I mean, there’s so many different kinds of unstructured data.
Some of your x-rays, some of your, your images that you have, right? Um, as a doctor, as a surgeon, they can take those and ingest it and use those in their analysis. So it was a, it was, it was novel. Then it became more commonplace and it’s real commonplace now what, what they did and what they’re doing. But it’s making everybody faster and smarter.
You know, rising tides raise all boats, right? So it’s making everybody real, uh, uh, much faster and much smarter, uh, uh, today. And, you know, now we can focus on higher level problems, whatever’s coming down the road, you know?
What do you think that those problems are? What, what do you think are the, the higher level problems?
I think the next thing that we’re into and what we’re doing now is a lot of the gene therapy, right. Um. You know, these companies are, are getting into, you know, taking your DNA and, and making a, a, a therapy personalized for you. You know, and there’s really only a handful, well, 30 of ’em, right? Roughly 30 of ’em approved here in the us, something like that.
And I’m sure there’s many, many more, uh, on the back burner. [00:13:00] But I think that’s the big, the, the next one, the big one, the achilles heel for those folks. I mean, the science is great. The therapies are great. Uh, the, the, the responses that these, uh, uh, um, um, you know, patients are getting are just phenomenal. Um, but the manufacturing is, is kind of the problem ’cause they have manufacturing scientists, right? So they can only really make, it’s, you know, it’s manufacturing slash lab, right? They, they can only make one batch at a time. One person makes one batch. It’s not like a real factory where they’re. Yeah, I don’t know.
Mass producing cars or pills or whatever. They’re, they’re making one batch at a time,
Mm-hmm.
I mean, they should go slow, but that’s really kind of the Achilles heel in the industry. Like I said, it’s, it’s, it’s a manufacturing and a, and a, uh, production sort of thing. But we’re going. I think that’s what we’re doing, and I think it’s great stuff
Yeah. I mean, I couldn’t believe last year that they cured sickle cell anemia, and that was such an amazing breakthrough. It kind of flew underneath the radar for a bit.
Yeah.
But then, you know, talking to people in the industry, uh, they were just so impressed with it. And I remember Saturday Night Live did a skit about it.
I mean, it, it’s, it’s like a biotech. Uh, it’s a biotech breakthrough that really, that really got people really excited about what the future has to hold. And I, I guess my question to you is like, what else do you see like that’s coming down the pipeline that human beings are gonna experience that that might be, um, that powerful.
Well, I mean, what a lot of companies got into in, um, COVID time, right? Because during Covid. You remember, we couldn’t do anything. We were locked down and that shut down our industry. Why did it shut down our industry? Because clinical trials, right? So clinical trials were all, um, locked up. People were scared to get a go outta their house.
They couldn’t, you know, to do a clinical trial to, to whether they’re drawn blood, whether you gotta go get a compound, you know, whatever it is. They have to control all those things in the experiment, right? So they get, it’s gotta be administered the same way and dah, dah, dah. They couldn’t do this stuff remote. So what I started seeing a lot during Covid was the need for, you know, for wearables, right. Um, and, and, and things like that. And I think that wearables are giving us, you know, as, or, or giving scientists, giving these companies to, you know, really figure out. What’s going on? How’s this affecting us?
And things like that. You know, before it was going to the lab, we’ll take your blood pressure at this time, da da da. They can monitor all that stuff now, man, they can monitor it remote and I think that that’s great for, uh, you know, some people don’t like the whole privacy issue on it. And I. That’s, that’s a whole separate issue.
But, you know, um, I think it’s awesome, you know, and I think that the push was really made at that time, you know, to, to, to, to use these things. I mean, you got Dexcom out in San Diego with they’ve, they’ve, um, uh, glucose monitors, right? That hook up to your phone, you know, and, and you couldn’t do that even months ago.
You couldn’t do that, you know, and now that’s all gonna hook into your ora ring, maybe your Garmin watch, right? With your sleep and all that stuff. You know, you’re getting a three, you’re getting your own 360 degree view as opposed to the company, your or companies just getting that. So I think this is all really awesome stuff and, and, and then maybe with all these variables we can see different things coming down the road before we even know we have it, whatever, some sort of ailment.
So I think that’s where we’re going and I think, I think we’re there, right?
Yeah, I mean, listen, like all that stuff that you’re talking about, I’m personally doing, like I’m, I’m very much into hacking my own health. Like I just ordered my own blue blood glucose monitor. I, I have two different Apple watches so that like, as soon as I put one down, I put put the other one on. So I’m never without like, you know, so I’m tracking my calories, I’m tracking my workouts, you know, I wanna, I wanna live to be 120, so.
So, so here’s the, I’m, I’m, I’m about to hit a tangent. Sorry.
No, it’s okay.
We’re gonna have a problem with retirement, with money, with Social Security and 401k. So, I don’t know, do I wanna live to 120? Sure.
Yeah, I mean, I, I think it really depends on, like, I, I personally, I would be happy to work for longer than, you know, 65. Like, I, I really like my job. I really, you know, could see myself doing this for a very long time. Even in just like a professor role. Like right now I teach at Tufts University and you know, there’s a guy that comes around, um, he’s since retired from surgery, but he just kind of helps out and, and do, does lectures and.
He’s, he’s, you know, not, not in his prime anymore. And, but certainly adds value to the educational experience. And I think that that’s something that, you know, when I’m in my eighties, I, I could see myself giggling a lot of, I. Enjoyment from that. So, um, so personally from, you know, from a financial perspective, yes.
Is, is it gonna be very difficult to, to withhold that, um, amount of money for that long? I think it would be, but if you’re continuing to work theoretically, like, it, it, you know, with compound interest, it’s just gonna be something that, um. Makes it, um, you know, I, I would just work less. I would work because I enjoy working,
Right.
because I have to work.
And, and I’ll tell you just as a sample size, I gotta sample size it too. Mom did this, what I do, and she really, I mean, if you wanna say retired. She retired. She’s 80. They’re both 86. Mom retired, if you will, maybe five, six years ago, you know, 80 ish. Um, dad retired when he was 56. He was a Wall Street guy. You put these two in the same room like Thanksgiving, Christmas, you think they’re 20 years apart. He just wasn’t using it, you know, he wasn’t, even for your longevity, you gotta keep the, keep the, keep the muscle, right? Because all muscles, you gotta exercise.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I could see myself like taking off like maybe three months. But I, I can’t see myself just sitting around doing nothing for the entire, like, like, what am I gonna do when I’m 80 years old? I, I, I think that that’s something that, that, um. If I don’t have work, I’m gonna find some other form of enjoyment.
And I think that that’s something that a lot of the longevity people will talk about. You know, a lot of these people who are living past a hundred have something that they’re invested in and, um, that maybe something that biotech could, could help with. You know, maybe there’s some sort of physiologic process that’s on that’s happening that, that could keep your, your brain.
Sharp enough during those years without you having to do that. But for right now, I mean, just find something that you like to do, right?
Right. Whether you’re Warren Buffet or Charlie Munger, it doesn’t matter. You’re, you’re, you’re living and you’re getting it done and you’re making billions for a lot of people, you know, all day long. When I’m, when I do my, you know, my work, my executive recruitment work, and I talk to guys and girls in their, you know, late fifties, early sixties, and they’re like. Steve, I’m kind of getting pushed down, but I got a lot to give. You know, I wanna do fractional work and I can’t just turn the, turn the light switch off. You know exactly what we’re talking about.
Mm-hmm.
They don’t want to, you know, work smart. They work smarter, not harder. They wanna show the young folks how to do it. They’re not looking for a huge paycheck. They’re not gonna kill anybody to get to the top of the ladder. ’cause you know, I’m good. I don’t need that. I just need to do good work and I want to get. don’t even wanna get paid market rate. They just wanna get something, you know, they don’t, they’re not really that worried.
So, I don’t know. There’s a market out there for that too. I just don’t know. Uh, companies aren’t big fans of it, but I don’t know, they’re not gonna hire them full time, which is fine. These folks will take their hourly things, they’d be off the books, but I’m not sure I’ve, I’ve thought about it a million times and I haven’t been able to crack it.
Do you think the workforce is gonna change at all in the biotech industry with the advent of artificial intelligence and things like that? Is that something that you are considering?
Well, so yeah, I’ve been looking at that a lot, you know, and folks ask me about AI, and, you know, I talk to obviously a lot of technology leaders about AI, and, um. I think that it’s, I think we’re out over our skis, out over the front of our skis, on AI. I think that AI, we’re putting too much in the AI basket yet, right?
I mean, will we get there? Sure. We’ll get there, but I think that we’re thinking it’s going to do too much today for us. And I feel when I talk to my technology leaders that they’re getting pushed by their COOs, CEOs, CFOs because they hear about it from their buddies from somewhere, wherever the club or the golf course or something, that they’re using it to make money, and they’re not. There aren’t a ton of use cases. It’s doing some cool stuff, you know, it’s correlating some data, and it’s helping with, you know, processing a ton of data and finding things in EMR and EHR data that they couldn’t find before. You know, things like that, which is awesome. Great stuff. Is it going to do more? Yeah. Um, can it do a ton more than that?
Is it replacing, like they’re talking about, you know, like they’re talking about replacing folks? It’s not right now, you know, it’s reviewing contracts, it’s doing procurement processes, whatever, you know, things like that, which again, is huge. It’s making us smarter, you know, it’s taking that 20 minutes every day or two hours every day, whatever your number is, on doing maybe some of these slide decks or maybe some of that data analysis or writing some of those emails or writing some of those white papers or whatever it is, you know. Um, but it’s not replacing. I think it’s, it doesn’t, it’s not going all the way through the process yet. We’ll get there. Yeah, probably.
But, so I think AI in our industry. Um, I think it’s going to help a ton on that research side, right? I mean, you know, that’s however many 10-year process, right? If you knock a year off that with your AI, I mean, that’s huge. They’re spending so much money on this stuff. So, you know, they’ve been using it, they’re trying to use it on the commercial side.
Um, you know, for their different patient-level data and things like that. Demographic, geographic, so on and so forth. And it works. It works great, you know? Um, but I think AI, we’re all going to keep trying it and pushing it into different corners, and, uh, it’s not going to stop, you know?
Which is good. I think, you know, innovation, innovation.
I think that it’s, it’s definitely gonna make us more productive, which I’m really looking forward to. I think that’s something that a lot of people are talking about, about it’ll give us more free time back, make, you know, there’s so much administrative. Work that’s required to be a citizen in 2025.
Like, hopefully that will help with, you know, a lot of that. I mean, just, even just like researching, you know, where to go out to eat or something like that. You know, if I have like three different qualifications, then it takes me 10, 15 minutes to find the right restaurant. Hopefully AI can do something like that.
So I’m, I’m really looking forward to the assistant level AI coming out. Um, but, you know, uh. Especially in biotech, what what I see is like the, what you’re talking about with the research perspective, maybe one researcher could do the work of 10 people and does that change the calculus for the, the workforce, number one.
And then, um, also just like more, more broadly, I wanted to ask you independently of, of how, you know the workforce is changing, but. How does the US stack up in regards to other countries? You know, I, I, I, I have had some other biotech leaders on, and especially in the longevity space, they will move to Europe to, um, uh, pursue some of these more, um, fringe research ideas.
Because longevity, I’m sure that, you know, is, is it’s not exactly, um. Clear cut in that you have a problem, you do a FD, a clinical study, and then, and then you, you publish your data and then you bring a product to market. It’s, it’s much more different than that. Right. And so they’re, they’re going to Europe.
Are we still number one when it comes to biotech? Is it, is it, is Europe more advantageous from a regulatory standpoint? What is your perspective on that?
I think, I don’t, I I think it’s, uh, I don’t think there’s any one area that’s more advantageous than another, you know, um, the FDA’s the fda A so if you’re gonna, so the, the, the, the holy Grail is the US from a financial perspective. And, you know, economic incentive kind of runs the whole. Show whatever the show is. So we are the ones where, where I’m just bottom line, we’re the ones where, where everybody makes their money and they try and come here, you know, so if they’re already selling their products or they have a product somewhere in Europe, they open up something here. And I’ve helped a lot of companies come here and, and open up, you know, their office in New York City or Boston or whatever, and or or Philadelphia.
And then they start selling their product here, the commercialized year. And this is where they wanna be because this is where they can make money. So. From that perspective, I think that there’s no other, there is no substitute for us on that front, you know, as far as innovation and those kinds of things.
Um, you know, I, you know, I don’t know. I still believe that, you know, we’re, we’re high on that list, but I, you know, I can’t say for certain, but I would say we are just because usually go where the money is. Right. You know, so that’s, it is, I mean, again, it’s Economics and math for just humans, you know, so, and, and corporations in general. Because they gotta survive and they wanna thrive. And if they wanna thrive, they’ve gotta get something sold in the US.
Mm-hmm. Do you see a lot of, a lot more executives coming from other countries trying to come here? Or do you see a lot of more executives from the US trying to, trying to go out? Like what is, what is it?
It’s interesting you say that because I do see some that go out, but for the most part I see ’em coming this way. I just was chatting with, um, a woman over in Tokyo who. She’s helping a bunch of companies come here to the us you know, they’re small little biotechs and she’s in my business and she helps them get involved with, you know, you know, they, they, they, they hit the, you know, geographically with close to them, which is California, which is fine. Um, you know, but yeah, no, I see them coming here again for the same kind of reason. They see the funding, they see the money, they see the size of the market, and they know that, you know, we’ve got a, um. A structure in place, you know, with our FDA and such, with our approval processes. And they, they can, it’s as predictable as it gets.
Right. You know, I don’t know, uh, whether the other Japanese or, or eu, you know, uh, regulatory bodies are as predictable as the FDA. Again, it’s not, nothing the perfect science, you know, but it’s as close as we can get.
Okay. Yeah, so, you know, I, I would guess my, my question though is that, you know, when you, when you see a lot of people coming here, um, we know that the US at large is, uh, a great opportunity for people. Are there certain centers that are doing better than others? Because I know Kendall Square is known as this center for Biotech, right?
And I know Silicon Valley is the center for technology. Where, where are people moving to and what would you say are like the top areas that, that biotechnology is, can, can be done with, uh, successfully.
Well, so, you know, I mean, it’s no mystery. I don’t think that, you know, companies like that, whether they’re technology companies or biotech companies, are going to go to one of a few different places. And most of that has to do with the schooling in the area. I mean, Cambridge is a hotbed, right?
Great, great minds come out of there. I mean, you know, uh, you know, you’ve got Harvard, you’ve got Northeastern. I went to BU, and I remember Northeastern back in the day; it was a completely different school, and they’ve done phenomenal—I mean, just amazing—stuff coming out of there. Um, but anyway, yeah, so, so they go towards the schools, they go towards those areas.
So you’ve got the San Francisco area. You’ve got San Diego; San Diego’s got a ton of R and D, just like Cambridge does, but I think San Diego is less mature because they haven’t had as many commercial successes come out of there. Not yet. I would’ve said the same thing about Cambridge, maybe 6, 7, 8, 10 years ago.
You know, not ’cause the big ones are here in our area, right? You know, you’ve got J&J, you’ve got all the big companies here, the big commercial companies. And whenever there was a need for somebody that understood the whole commercial side of things up in Cambridge years ago, they’d have to come down here and grab somebody and pull them up there.
You know, that’s changed, right? There’s more commercial understanding of taking a drug to market up there now. So, um, they’re able to find those folks. San Diego, not as much there. I don’t even see a whole heck of a lot of demand coming out of San Diego, at least not yet for the folks that know commercial.
going to be less mature than either one. And then I’d say San Fran’s right in the middle. So, you know, um, I’d say those four areas: San Francisco, San Diego, the Boston area, and our area. You’re starting to see some out of the Philadelphia area, you know, and a little bit more out of Chicago. Uh, Chicago’s making a run at it as well, you know, but again, they tend to follow the schools. I’m surprised that I don’t see more, and I know there’s less than a handful.
I’m surprised I don’t see more in like the Pittsburgh area. I don’t know if it’s their geography, but you’ve got pretty smart folks coming out of there. I know that in Pittsburgh, there’s a ton of technology. You know, you’ve got—there’s been in the last 15 years—Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta; they all have huge offices there. So you would think that biotech would be there, but there are only a few of them, you know, so I thought there’d be…
Yeah, they’ve really made a name for themselves in robotics. I feel like that’s something that Pittsburgh has been known for. Actually, I visited a few robotics companies that were doing pretty amazing things over there. Um, but yeah. Yeah. So, um, there was this transition to telerobotics, which is like, you know, an operator that is controlling a robot and, um, that allows them to, to like, you know, pilot a sub in irradiated waters or something like that.
And so there were people there trying to make, um, you know, apparatuses that you could put into a submarine that was built for humans, but that a human could pilot it far away, you know, so, so that was something that was really of personal interest to me. I’ve always been interested in science fiction, and when I think of, you know, robots, I think of like the big suits that you put on that allow you to to be super strong and everything like that. And, and, and from a surgical perspective, what I want, just like I was telling you, is that, you know, as my body breaks down, I would love to have some sort of exoskeleton that allows me to operate for longer. That’s been the goal of surgical robotics for a long time.
But it really has not kept pace with, um, surgical skill. Like I can do a surgery much faster with my hands than I can with, with a surgical robot, you know? So it’s just something that I have a personal interest in.
Well, let me ask you a question then, just on that, on that, you know, accuracy is gonna be the same then, right?
So in regards to surgical robotics versus hands? Yes, I, I mean, I think that I, I have yet to find a paper that says that surgical robotics are better. What what is better is that they’re able in surgical robotics to make a smaller incision and get into places that are a little bit more difficult than, um, than the human body can get into.
And so. Under that understanding it is, it is technically better, but realistically, in my opinion, the, the, the biggest threat to someone’s life in surgery is the amount of time that you’re under anesthesia. I. So if you have like a three hour procedure versus a six hour procedure, a three hour procedure is inherently safer.
And so when you have the ability to do things fast and efficiently, that’s gonna always be the gold standard. And so right now a human being is able to operate at a level that a surgical robot will not be able to. And, and we’re talking about tele robotics, right? We’re talking about. Something that like, is like a video game controller where it’s a human controlling it.
You know, we’re not talking about like a robot doing it completely independently, which does exist in certain fields. You know, like there, there are, um, like there’s a, a company here that has a, a dental implant company where they, you know, once you, um, have a tooth removed, a implant, a, a robot completely independently of a human being.
Could actually place that implant. And that’s not something that I think exists in, uh, in surgery yet, outside of that one, like isolated thing. But to me it, it seems like it’s like a huge jump in, um, in control, right? It’s not something that I think that a human being would want to have a robot do it completely independently without any human intervention.
Yeah. I don’t think I’d be too comfortable there.
Yeah. I don’t think I’m not there yet either, but I am pretty excited about, like, I want surgical robotics to be, to be something that is as good or better than a human being operating just because that would allow me to operate for much longer. And, um, you know, Pittsburgh was the, was has become the center of robotics.
So I wanted to see what, what it was that they were creating, because once it comes out for industry, it’s gonna be a few years later before it gets into medicine, you know?
Yeah.
So that was one of the reasons why I went back to Pittsburgh. But, um, you know, I we’re, we’re coming short on our time, so I did wanna ask you one question.
So it’s really two questions. Number one, if you had a young person that wanted to. Become a biotech executive, uh, how would you steer them in the right direction? And then also if you had someone like me who was like a surgeon and, and wanted to transition into biotechnology, like let’s say if I hurt my hands and you know, I wanted to do something more on the industry side from a biotech perspective, how would I make that transition?
Well, so the first thing I do in my business when I’m talking to a company or I’m talking to an individual, and this is both on the individual side, I always, I call it drivers. I always find out what their motivation is. What do they like, right? Because what do they want to do? What do they want to go?
What do they, what are their thoughts on that? Because. know, you could talk to somebody about what’s best or what’s hot or what’s going or what’s good, but to really get into their mindset, you know, so somebody, I’ll give you an example. Um, my daughter, right? She goes to school in Pittsburgh, she’s at University of Pittsburgh, right?
So she’s studying data science and she’s studying analytics and. You know, she’s really, really into, um, demographic data, geographic data, all this data, you know, and I started talking to her about how biotech companies. they go commercial, they really need to understand their, their, their clients, you know, or their, their, their, their, their patients, right? Then they need to understand the doctors. Then, you know, the providers, then they need to understand the competition, right? So they need to understand all that stuff. So, and she just loves looking at the numbers and the data and all that stuff. So I understood her driver, so. I got her involved with the company or had her talk to some folks that we knew at a company that supplies a lot of the data and does a lot of the analytics and things like that, right?
So that’s, that’s one avenue, you know, a, a surgeon, you know, you, you talk to them about, well, let’s talk about, you know, what you enjoyed the most. You know, obviously, like you said, maybe your hands aren’t where they need to be. Maybe, maybe you would get more on the science side. Maybe you’d be more in, uh, uh, in the lab with some folks.
It just depends on what your drivers were earlier on, you know, so, uh, before you got into surgery. Right. So it just, it, it all depends on, on the individual. And, and likewise on the flip side, the companies, I do the same thing. You know, what do you need? What are you looking for? And they’re all different shapes and sizes and, and they all need something different.
And a lot of times, both individuals and companies. this is true for anything, not just what I do. Um, they don’t understand. Sometimes they don’t know what they really want. You know, it doesn’t say when you walk into a car dealership, you know exactly what car you want. You gotta go through all that. Or, or, or what sport coat you want when you walk into Brooks Brothers, you know, whatever.
Um, but that’s why everything comes in different shapes and sizes and colors, right? Because we don’t know yet what we need and what we want, right?
Yeah, I mean, I hear what you’re saying. I guess my question is, I know many people that have made. A jump, right? Like they’re, they’re disgruntled with medicine. It’s, it’s, they feel like they’re, they’re not able to provide the care that they really want. Um, and then they make this jump. What are the skills that you would recommend them learn so that they, they could make that transition and, and, and come at a competitive level?
You know, not starting from an entry level position.
Yeah. Well, so that, that’s a tough one again, because I don’t know where they want to go. Right. What they want to do, you know? But if they were coming into, so a lot of what we do is technology, right? So if they wanted to make the jump into technology, you know, let’s talk about, um, your ability to process that data.
Let’s talk about what data makes you, you know. Uh, uh, drives you the most. You know, it’s, if it’s a surgeon, it’s probably gonna be somebody involved with the, the, you know, that scientific data more in the r and d side, right? So, you know, understand, uh, you know, get involved with some of that data and really trying to figure out, uh, how you can help a company, um, you know, whether you’re, whether you’re helping them get that data, uh, uh right.
You know, because going all the way back, we didn’t really touch on this real hard. Um, anything doom having to do with ai. You’re dead in the water. If you don’t have the right data coming in, you’re done. You’re not, you’re not even getting, not even getting outta bed in the morning. Right. So, um, so, you know, to the hottest thing right now is all that data, right?
And trying to make sense of all that data and then trying to get that data to a point where these models can use it. So maybe somebody has a propensity to deal with and help to collate and curate some of that EMR and EHR data. They can help a company understand how they’re coding all this, how they’re putting it together, how they’re making it, you know, maybe the governance around that data, right.
The security around it. Like, can we do this? Can this go here? Can that go there? There’s so many different things. You know, it’s really, really tough to say, um, what somebody can do and where they can go. ’cause it’s such a big field. Um, you know, everything, you know, there, there’s just, you know, I’m sorry I’m being slippery on it, but it’s just, there’s no straight line, you know.
Yeah. No, I hear you. It’s, it’s very interesting when I hear people that have made the jump, but I don’t think there’s any rhyme or reason to it. I think that they just got disgruntled with medicine and they made the jump.
I mean, just as a global sort of disgruntle thing, I mean, you know, everything I read right now, just people in general, uh, in their current. Situations are, I think I read 63% disgruntled or unhappy. We’re at an all time high on that, so I don’t know what that means or what’s gonna happen here in the near future, but that’s a big number.
Yeah, I mean it’s, um, it’s certainly something that I’d, I’d feel the sentiment specifically in my own field. There’s a lot of people who are, um, just kind of burnt out with medicine, you know? Um, and that’s something that, uh, I think I. A lot of it comes from, you know, the, the commercialization of what many people feel is a calling and, you know, you’re, you’re tasked with being hyper productive for doing, you know, um.
For doing things that at a, at a pace that you feel like you, you don’t want to do it at, you want to, you wanna kind of slow down your pace. And, and so that’s the thing with, with surgery is that, you know, everything is meant to become more efficient, to become more faster, to get more. This, uh, procedures done to, to increase your bottom line.
And so that’s, that’s something that I think a lot of surgeons are, are exiting the field and going into fields like biotech where they can still contribute, still feel like they’re doing good in the world, which is what brought them into the field in the first place.
So I had no idea. I had no clue how, how much they drive surgeons, how
Yeah.
I had an aortic aneurysm. This is more than you need to know, right. I had it repaired last February, a year ago.
Okay.
I’ve been monitoring it for 15 years. I used a surgeon in New York City at Cornell, right when I got this thing done, I, you know, you gotta do your laps, you gotta walk around, you know, I’m there for a week.
He had 11 people at any one time. This one surgeon. That he was been operating on people in during a week, and I got my bill. It’s a big bill, so the p and l on this guy is gigantic. If he’s doing that all year long, insane. know? Yeah, exactly right. And I’m seeing him at 11 at night and I’m seeing him at six 30 in the morning, you know?
Absolutely. No, it’s a, it’s, I mean, yeah, it’s truly a calling, right? You have to really love that stuff and like I like being in the hospital. I like being in like, the mix with, with all that stuff. Um, but it can become tiresome. And that’s why I see a lot of people making this jump.
But listen, I want to end on a positive note. I feel like there’s so many biotechnology breakthroughs that are happening. And part of the podcast is I ask all of my guest general questions at the end. And, um, I know we touched on this a little bit, but, um, the first question that I always ask is, where do you see your industry in 10 years?
What do you think that the biotech industry is gonna look like?
I think the biotech industry, I mean, there’s. So earlier we talked about economic incentive, and there’s a lot of economic incentive for both investors and everybody involved with biotech. There, there, there’s, there’s economic incentive in there. I think the government is trying, which, you know, trying to bring prices down, but they’re gonna, they’re gonna kill innovation if they do that.
So I don’t think it’s gonna change a whole heck of a lot. Than where it is today, um, from, from that perspective, right? They’re gonna try and bring prices down, but they’re gonna bring prices down. They’re gonna squash innovation. So I think biotech to, to, to hit on what you and I were so structurally, I don’t think the the, the macro picture’s gonna change much on more of a micro level.
I think AI’s gonna just become more and more embedded in our industry, and I think it’s gonna be for the better. I think it’s gonna be great stuff. They’re gonna be punching out medicines that. Are gonna help so many different ailments, you know, uh, in, in a great way. You know, I mean these, these immuno-oncology drugs, you know, there’s several of those companies doing that right now as, uh, on the gene therapy side.
And then there’s others that aren’t even on the gene therapy side doing immuno-oncology drugs, which is just phenomenal. And the response rates at some of these, uh, uh, uh, candidates get, you know, um, I had a, yeah. So anyway, I won’t get into a personal story there, but. Um, yeah, I think that that AI is gonna be in our, um, um, industry a lot more, and it’s gonna be, make us a lot better and a lot smarter and a lot faster.
Do you think it’s going to continue to be dominated by big companies like Pfizer? And GSK and all these other, um, big companies, or is it gonna be much more egalitarian like, you know, Silicon Valley 30 years ago, where people in their, you know, garage were making companies.
Well, listen, they have so much money, it’s hard to get past that, you know? Um, and they’re, they’re just paying up for these companies, you know? I mean, you know, horizon was bought by Amgen for, you know, close to 30 billion out of, out of, out of. Ireland a couple years ago, and they have 1.7 billion in revenue. That’s a big number. You got a lot, you got a lot of promise coming in that. So who’s gonna compete with that at least right now? Um, I think it’s gonna remain that way? Well, if they, if they waste money, it won’t remain that way. It’s really tough for a company. Let’s look at one that I do a lot of work with.
I’ve done a lot of work with Regeneron, right? Worked with them for 16 years. I placed 70 plus folks there. When I started working with them, they, they, I don’t even know if they had any revenue. If they did, it was a couple hundred million dollars and there was less than a thousand people. Now they’ve got, you know, 10 plus billion in revenue and, and 14,000 employees.
You know, it’s tough for companies to do that. They’re two founders. Had put the Regeneron clause in each one of their uh, uh, partnerships, you know, um, ’cause that’s how a lot of these companies need to start. ’cause they don’t have the supply chain, they don’t have the commercial Right. Like we just talked about with Pfizer and j and j and Novartis and Merck. Um, so they had a, they had a poison, almost a poison pill clause. You know, if some of these other biotechs that successful with getting drugs passed. But also that successful with allow you, you know, with their. Poison pill clauses effectively, then yeah, there will be more that grow. But that’s a, that’s a big company and there’s not a lot of that that I see here or coming.
A lot of them talk about, you know, half jokingly, you know, being bought out by some of the big guys. That’s part of the, I don’t wanna say the goal, but that’s, that’s in the equation, I guess I should say. Right. Um, it’s in the calculus as they
Absolutely. Yeah. It’s, it’s, so sometimes an exit strategy for people.
Yeah.
Anyway, uh, you know, I feel like we could talk about the, the industry for a while, but I did want to ask you, um, other than your area of expertise, which is biotech, what is the technology that. Um, technological breakthroughs are happening all the time.
What are you looking at in the news or maybe in your own personal life that you’re just super interested in that may not be, uh, something that is closely associated with your field? Like for me, it’s robotics. Like I can’t wait until I can have a robot that can do my laundry and, and wash my dishes. So I’m always watching what the next robotic breakthrough is, even though it doesn’t really have too much of an association with my field.
What about you?
Well, so, I mean, we talked about the, the wearables, right? I think that that’s really, really cool stuff. I mean, I love that stuff ’cause I, uh, the way I got involved unfortunately, with my aortic aneurysm was. I used to do a lot of exercise. I’m getting back on the bike now since I got repaired, but that’s why I wanna monitor my glucose and monitor my sleep and monitor my heart rate and all that stuff.
So that to me, I think is, is, uh, the coolest stuff here and coming. And once we can, it’s, it seems, it’s, it’s, it’s a little disjointed right now, these things, but I think that, um, they’re, they’re, they’re getting more cohesive. And I think that starting to get to the point where we can take pictures of what we’re eating and then that just gets all calibrated in there too, which is awesome stuff.
And I guess you probably do, you know, some of the same stuff, but I think for me, that’s the coolest, newest, greatest stuff.
Yeah. No, I totally agree. I, I think that it’s something that I’m personally interested in and I just, I can’t wait until we can. Track every little thing so that we can modify our lifestyle to be the healthiest version of ourselves. And so I feel like we’re close to it.
I think that, and I think us as Americans in our country, we eat and what we’re allowed to eat, right? That’s different, right? The FDA, uh, lets a few things through that. Other countries are like, whoa, you guys eat that? I mean, mountain Dew, let’s start there and then let’s keep going.
Right? Um, but y you know, monitoring that stuff, looking at that stuff, understanding what’s going into your system and that it’s gonna sit in maybe some of your organs for a long time, you know, is kind of probably good information to have, you know, so.
Absolutely. Yeah, more information is better. I think that we can all agree with that.
So nice to speak with you, Steve. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really got a lot of insight from the biotech industry, even though it’s just a couple streets down, I don’t have people as tuned in as you are from a more of a global perspective, ’cause you’re, you’re doing hiring, you’re placing people and you’ve also seen it from a very long time. So, so thank you so much for, for that.
And then tune into Steve’s podcast, which is Biotech Bites. It’s very important and very informative.
And uh, feel free to also follow us on a regular basis. If you don’t mind hitting the like and subscribe button. We would really appreciate it. And for those of you guys who are following us on a regular basis, thank you so much for all of your support. And as always, we will see you again in the future. Thanks everybody.
0 Comments