How To Carry Star Trek's Vision Of Hope Into The Future

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Futurist Society. As always, I'm your host Dr. Awesome and I have a really special guest today. We have Eugene Rod Roddenberry, who's the CEO of Roddenberry Entertainment and one of the producers on Star Trek, which is a lot of inspiration that I draw from on a regular basis.

A lot of the ideas of the future, I think of the most utopian society that we can think of, came to me from the whole Star Trek enterprise. So thanks so much for joining us, Mr. Roddenberry. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and kind of what you're doing now?

Yeah, absolutely. And first, please, everyone can call me Rod. But what I'm doing now, well, that's a loaded question.

In terms of what I think people might be slightly interested in, you know, there's some new Star Trek coming out. So while we work with the other producers who are really forming the stories and coming up with the concepts, we share our notes, we share our ideas, we share our thoughts on what that show is and perhaps things that might be moving in one direction too far or in another. We've got some new Star Trek coming out, so I'm looking forward to Starfleet Academy. 

I'm also proud to, well, we can't release anything, but we're really working on getting some stories about Gene Roddenberry out there. Because people, well, listen, as generations have gone on, the knowledge of Gene Roddenberry has kind of stuck, I think, with the older group and not as much with the new. And that's completely fine.

That's how evolution works on some level. But Gene Roddenberry outside of Star Trek was an incredibly fascinating human being. Having fought in World War II and been a bomber pilot. 

After that, becoming a transcontinental airline pilot, flying from New York to Johannesburg. And when deadheading on a flight, being a passenger, a captain passenger on a flight, the engines gave out on a plane and they crashed in the Syrian desert, and he was the only surviving officer. After that, he joined the LAPD and walked the beat of Hollywood in LA as an officer and kind of moved up the ranks to lieutenant and met the chief of police back then and started writing speeches for the chief of police, who wasn't known so much for his love of the people.

He was more of a police by force. And my father was able to sort of have debates and discussions and arguments and help soften his speeches so that the public didn't see him as maybe perhaps a little too aggressive. And anyhow, all of this and more that I have not mentioned, was this man's life before Star Trek.

And I think it's an incredible story. And to say he's an incredibly flawed human being, just like we all are. And he still was able to have a vision of a beautiful future and get a bunch of great, intelligent people around him and create Star Trek.

So anyhow, that is really where my passion is. We have a family foundation, another passion of mine. I do not consider myself a Hollywood producer, even though I've got fancy titles on shows.

I'm not as excited about Hollywood as many of the people in it. I think it has tremendous potential. I think it always has.

And I think there's a lot of good in it. But I just, I'm just not as excited to be in that industry. And I'm more excited, if anything, if anything, to be in the world of philanthropy, because it's really great to know that you can see results. You can aim for good. You can develop programs. You can come up with ideas.You can bounce it off people. You can join other philanthropy groups. You can really try to do good and make good happen. And you can see it happen. And that's a great opportunity and a great thing to have.

Anyhow, that's a long answer. 

No, I love that. I mean, I'd love to talk more about your philanthropy, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask the burning question that I've always wanted to ask, which is, you grew up in this household.

Where did the ideas come from? Because I feel like most science fiction authors or ideators, visionaries, what have you, think about dystopian science fiction. They think about all of the worst things that can come out of humanity.

But your dad thought about the best of humanity. And honestly, it was so powerful for so many people. And I think a lot of the people that are building the future today draw inspiration from that vision.

I don't think that there's another utopian vision…

Well, there's a whole group who aren't. But we'll leave that out of this.

Yeah, of course. Of course. I think that there's a whole group that aren't. But I think that certainly the idea of a utopian vision is atypical. How did that come about?

Well, two part answer. First part is, you know, I wasn't around when my father was sort of developing this. And so, you know, I can't say with certainty because we sat down and had conversations – that never occurred.

But in my 50 years on this planet, I have had an incredible opportunity that a lot of people who have lost their parents early have not had. My father was a public figure, which means there was a lot there's a lot of there's a lot of material out there, whether it's speeches, interviews, people he met. So I've gleaned a lot about the man.

 And I've gleaned it from many different aspects. And I can find the man in the center. You know, the only thing I can really land on here is that, you know, my father in his career that I just sort of mentioned, had been all around the world. 

And he experienced cultures from all around the world and people from all around the world, and got to see the worst of humanity and the best of humanity. And I think when we as humans educate ourselves as to what is in the world, as opposed to what is in our bubble, or our home, or our neighborhood, or our town, but if we can reach beyond that, even beyond our country, we are able to get a perspective. And it works on our critical thinking skills.

And it works on our emotional skills. And we're able to have empathy. And anyhow, all of that, I think my father had, and was able to get by having these experiences, and said, there's no way we have a future based on everything I've seen.

There's no way we make it without working together. And that statement, if you just take a moment, is an obvious statement. After you say it, there is no way, there's no way nothing, there's no way anything happens without us working together, period.

You can probably survive alone for a while. But you're not going to have a fulfilled life, you're not going to experience anything, you're going to live in a bubble, and you're going to die in that bubble. The only way to advance as a person, and as a species is to work together.

So that's the answer. I think traveling the world and seeing what he saw, and having the experiences he had, see people die, see people live. I think that's how he did it.

Yeah, and you've certainly lived in the era where a lot of this pop culture references and cultural influence has been codified into society. How do you feel about the human race and how we're Do you feel optimistic or pessimistic about just the way we're headed?

It's been really tough recently. I mean, it's been really, really tough recently. I still have a, and I'm gonna use the word faith, but I still have a belief or a faith in our human potential.

I know we can do it. Our past and current government, past and current government, I think have failed in making its people a priority. In making us a priority in the sense that the only way we succeed is together. 

The only way we can work together is to educate ourselves. Listen, I don't want to give the credit to my father. There's millions of people who are wonderfully educated about the world and have plenty of critical thinking skills and social emotional abilities and empathy.

But just in referencing my father, to at least get a piece of that and a piece of what those people have instilled into every person. Once we have those social emotional skills, we are able to develop our empathy, we develop our critical thinking skills, and we have a basic education, because I think our STEM and STEAM are only half the equation. Once we have that, we can work together and grow together and succeed together and not make as many poor decisions, choices, or take unfortunate actions that get us to a point where well, I would say, are today and perhaps getting closer to.

I don't know if that made sense. 

No, I think it did. What I'm getting from what you're saying is that you see a lot of trials and tribulations that we're experiencing now that make you a little bit hesitant to be optimistic about the future of humanity.

I certainly get that. When I look at utopian visions of the future like Star Trek, I look at this as a shining beacon on the hill, and this is the direction that we're going. I think if we were to look at the past, we've certainly become less violent as a species from the Dark Ages until now.

The advent of technology has allowed us to interact with people a lot more. I'm very optimistic about what humanity has in store and what we are going to be going through in the next 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. 

I see those same trials and tribulations. I don't want to discredit them. I don't want to discount them. I guess my question to you is that what I think is probably the best example of utopian science fiction that's out there.

When I look at Star Trek, I could totally see us going in that direction where we enter into this post-scarcity society and we're really valued by our character and our will and whatever it is that we want to do. I guess my question to you is, what do you think is holding us back? Do you think it's the fact that we are still in a scarcity society, that materials are limited, whereas in Star Trek, it wasn't like that?

What do you think, other than human nature, is holding us back?

I don't want to bore anyone by repeating myself, but I do think it is education. Of course, when I use the word education, STEM and STEAM, traditional schooling, which also needs to be revamped because it's just an arcane old system of memorization and taking tests, but that's only half the equation. It's all the other things I mentioned, in my opinion, that we need to educate ourselves on or develop within ourselves.

Those two things combined together will bring our intellect, our emotional stability, our intelligence, everything together. Once we have the tools, I think many of us just don't have the tools. None of us have all the tools and none of us have perfected using all the tools.

However, on this ongoing quest to evolve as an intellectual human being, we need to do a better job at developing those tools within us because those tools allow us to interact and grow. To your point earlier, yes, we as a species have come a long way. It depends on how far back you want to go.

You can make the argument, history is always five steps forward, four steps back and degrees of that. So, yes, we have gone a long way. I just am disappointed, bummed that we now and in the past have not given ourselves the tools we need to really evolve to a better place, to that Star Trek world.

When Star Trek was originally created, and I think through the 80s and 90s, most of it, not all of it, but most of it was very utopian. I think most of it painted a vision of the future where we did have these tools, where we were better people, not perfect, but better people. And the point of the show was to inspire people to become better people, to get the parables, the stories and the ethics within there and to see something from a different point of view and to grow from that experience of watching it.

And of course, certainly its number one thing was to entertain, but as we all know, there's a little bit more to it than that. I want to make sure Star Trek continues to do that. I think now we need that, as we did back in the 60s and in between, we need to be inspired by people, I mean everything, but from my point of view, a TV show that says we can be better and doesn't focus on these are the hardships of life and in order to be better, we have to go through the grit and the nastiness and the terribleness to get to that. And I'm a little worried that we focus on that a little bit too much in society and all over television. Yeah, we are not perfect humans, and there's no way to get to perfect optimism…You're going to have to, oh God, an omelet, break a few eggs. There's plenty of shows breaking eggs, metaphorically. Let's have Star Trek show us, oh God, terrible, the omelet…. No, that's terrible. Let Star Trek just continue to inspire us.

So sorry, I went on a little tangent there, but you triggered a lot of thoughts in my head. 

That's okay. It's certainly been an inspiration to me. I grew up on The Next Generation. And when I think of how my morality was shaped during that time, as it came out at a certain time, I'm so impressionable at that age. I look at that as how to be the best man that I could be.

There was a lot of it that was science fiction, but there was a lot of it that was morality, right? These very edge cases of how you would do in a difficult situation. There wasn't really a clear, right answer. 

You could see that the writers presenting both sides in such a really elegant way that it allowed a young person like myself to be educated in morality in a way that I think that wasn't available in most other mediums. I hope that Star Trek becomes that in the future. I would be remiss if I didn't say that I absolutely loved the Lower Decks and all these other shows that are just pure entertainment value. 

They're great, and I love that Paramount is producing them. I'm eating up the content left and right. But I feel like there is that void right now for a TV show like Star Trek that has the ability to inspire like that, wouldn't you say?

I would. I would. And this is where I have to walk that fine line.

There's been five shows out. Prodigy, which was an animated show, which was freaking phenomenal, originally geared towards kids. But I've been saying this for years. And those of you have already heard me, my apologies for hearing again. It's not just for kids. Highly recommend it.

And it is the show that you just described. I absolutely loved it. Watching it with a child is great, but it is not just for kids.

Lower Decks, a lot of fun and some heartwarming. And there's some ethics and morals in there. Picard brought back the old cast, and people really appreciated that.

Discovery, the first one that came out in 2017, that was when I was being reintroduced to this new imagining of Star Trek. And it was a little bit of a challenge for me to really grasp onto. And by its third, fourth and fifth season, in particular the fourth and fifth, again, I would say it was the show that you’ve just described. 

And Strange New Worlds, it's got a bit of what you say, and it's also just a fun rollercoaster ride all the way through. So Star Trek still has it, but it's also looking at Star Trek through a slightly different lens. Clearly Gene Roddenberry is no longer around.

And as much as people might think that his son should pick up the torch and carry it on, well, whether I would want to or not, it's not my decision. When my father passed away, the control of Star Trek went with him. And he never had full control either.

Forgive me for anyone who already knows how studios and productions and entertainment work, but he sold the idea to Desilu way back in the 60s, early 60s. And NBC bought Desilu, Paramount bought NBC, it's going on and on. And so when you sell it, you negotiate your rights.

I want to be executive producer, I'm going to be showrunner, I'm going to be whatever. And then you negotiate your terms. But those all died with him.

And it doesn't just fall to me. And so CBS has been in control of television and Paramount has been in control of movies. And we've been fortunate enough to be brought in sort of, I would say as the EP advisors, and we share our thoughts.

And it's just a new age for a lot of things.

Yeah, I can hear sort of the trepidation in your voice when you're talking about, you know, the direction that Star Trek is going. But I gotta be honest with you, I really like the newer shows. And, you know, I think that a lot of the fans really appreciate, especially Lower Decks.

I mean, I think that it's just been my favorite one, hands down out of the whole crew, just because it's A super funny, and B, it does have a little bit of the morality associated with it. Do you have a particular do you have a particular intellectual property that you like more than others? I mean, I grew up on The Next Generation, so that has always been kind of my go to.

Yeah, so Next Gen, I grew up on too. And I've been rewatching all these for a podcast we have called Mission Log that we've been doing for 12 years now, I think, which is going through each episode chronologically and finding out, you know, a little summary, a little behind the scenes, a little trivia and fun. And then what are the morals, myths and messages in it?

And what were they like back when the show came out? And what is it? Do they do they have the same messages today? 

Anyhow, so we've got two great hosts. One has changed over the years, to look at that and really tease it apart and see what Star Trek is made out of. And it has been an incredible opportunity to go through and watch all the shows. 

I just finished off Voyager for my first time, I had seen some episodes, but I'd never seen all of Voyager. And now I'm into Enterprise, which I've seen season one, but I hadn't seen any other. So I'm really looking forward to in a think about a year, maybe a year and a half, I'll be able to see I've seen every Star Trek.

So I'll be very proud of that. But yeah, Gene's son, though, and being as close to Star Trek, and I can't say exactly like you, because I don't know, but and having a real passion for that vision of tomorrow. I mean, I really believe in the Star Trek message.

No, I do not think we should all wear uniforms and live in San Francisco and organize Starfleet. I mean, not a bad idea. But I'm saying the messaging, the idea, the fact that we can all be better, the fact we work together.

I truly believe in that, with all of my heart. And to know that Star Trek for almost 60 years now, has inspired other people to feel that way. I am incredibly, incredibly critical. 

When I look at anything that's got the Star Trek name on it, I'd say more than any. And so when you hear the trepidation in my voice, it is, it comes from a place of love, it comes from a place of maybe too much passion. It comes from, you still have to make a show entertaining.

And you still have to be able to sell advertising. And you still have to be able to get new eyes, young eyes on the show and appeal to younger and newer audiences. And so it is this walking a tightrope that all the producers and writers and creators have to do to keep Star Trek, Star Trek, bring in new audience, trying as hard as they can not to piss off the old.

And I wouldn't want that task at all.

But you're protective of it, which I totally, I totally get that. I totally get that this is something that you're very protective of. And yeah, it's certainly associated with your name. So I could see that. I mean, I would feel the same way about my own daughter, you know. 

But listen, I want to hear more about the Roddenberry Foundation and what you're doing with the philanthropy aspect, because I know that you started out saying that that was something that you're super passionate about. What are you guys doing from that perspective?

Well, I'm going to give you a broad view on it because it's a lot to go into. You know, it once again, it was sort of formed, modeled on the Star Trek philosophy, the Star Trek ideology. Long term.

So we try to find organizations, institutions, individuals who are working towards the long term advancement of our species. No Band-Aid solutions. You know, there are plenty of nonprofits out there and foundations that are, for example, giving blankets to the homeless or, you know, helping people with severe illnesses feel less pain and discomfort.

We are working with the people who are working for, working towards a cure. They're going back to the systemic start of whatever it is, whether it's medical, social, technological, whatever it is. And they're working for the solution that might be 10, 20, 50 years down the road.

Because we need that solution. And we don't believe, it's terrible, because there's people who need things now today. And not all the time, but often we have to say, that's not us. That's this other organization. They'll work with that. But we can't help you there. Because we're going for the core solution.

Can you give me some examples of what you're doing?

Gladstone Institute in San Francisco. We've been with them for ages. And they have a lot of focus on heart health, Alzheimer's. 

God, there's many things. So Shinya Yamanaka. Oh, God, I'm going to butcher his name. He got the Nobel Prize for pluripotent stem cell research. He developed that. And they brought him aboard. They were able to get him and have him come on to them. And that's where I learned about pluripotent stem cells. Stem cells used to be from embryonic, from babies, from fetuses. 

But we learned, and this is old news for a lot of people, that you could take an adult male skin cell, for example, and reverse engineer that into a heart cell or a lung cell or whatever. And then I remember looking through a microscope. It was on a screen, but it was going through a microscope.

And it was a sheet of beating heart cells that had been taken from an adult male skin cell. And so the implications of one day, of course, growing organs is fantastic. But what is more exciting about now is that you can take someone, me, for example, if I've got a heart condition, take my heart cells, put them in a Petri dish with a bunch of different sections of it, and test medicines on it.

Because there's hundreds, if not thousands of heart medicines, and find out which is the one that's most effective for whatever my condition is. And that way, I'm not having terrible side effects and things. So it's just, it's freaking phenomenal.

And they're really doing science that is groundbreaking, cutting edge, in my mind, futuristic.

Yeah, no, I'm very super optimistic.

You're in that world, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, you can correct me on anything I said.

No, no, no. I think you did it very well. The Yamanaka factors were made out of a response from the George W. Bush administration that said no more testing on embryonic stem cells. And it was made in response to develop stem cells that were not coming from an embryonic source. And so this guy, Yamanaka, just like you said, won the Nobel Prize for being able to reverse those cells into pluripotent stem cells.

And a lot of research that's being done right now in the longevity space. So there's two main branches for longevity. There's the idea of doing things right now so that we extend our life for as long as possible.

You have different thinkers like Peter Atiyah that are saying like exercise, exercise, exercise. And there's some people like David Sinclair, who's talking about molecules like rapamycin, metformin, sirtuins, all that type of stuff so that we can take a 40-some year old and extend their life to 120, 150. Then there's people like this guy Yamanaka that says maybe we can reverse aging similar to how we do it on the stem cell level.

And like you said, it's the biotechnology industry. I live in Kendall Square in Boston, which is like the center for, or in Cambridge, excuse me, which is like the center for biotech. And you have this huge, huge buzz going on right now in the biotech field about the different things that are available to us. 

And I mean, if you can think about it, just like what you're talking about, the ability to reverse engineer aging, that would allow us to live longer, fuller, more productive lives. I think that would be a super optimistic, super utopian vision of the future that hopefully is coming down the pipeline. What are some of the things that you're looking at that made other technologies that you see coming similar to biotechnology that might fulfill that utopian vision of Star Trek?

Well, I mean, I don't want to say I'm not looking, but the biotech area, I am not, I was able to regurgitate sort of the same thing that I've been saying for last few years now. I don't want to say I don't, well, no, I can say I don't know what I'm talking about when I get to I know that sentence or that paragraph, and I know what it means, but I don't know much about the biotech area. And while we're always looking, I can't say there's any one thing.

I mean, Alzheimer's is a big one, heart health, we've, I mean, it's…

Outside of medicine though, I mean, do you feel like, you know, like everybody's talking about artificial intelligence. It's like the, you know, the buzzword on everybody's mind, but many people are very optimistic about it. Very many people are pessimistic about it.

I think humanoid robots are something that is going to really expand our capabilities. I mean, just to be a human being in 2025, there's so many administrative tasks that were, or even just like, you know, washing your dishes and clean, you know, folding your laundry that you don't have to do if you have a humanoid robot that's able to do that for you. Are there any technologies that you're looking at that like, man, if we could just do that, that would bring us a little step closer to that utopian vision.

Yeah. You know, I mean, so not to go back to an old thing, but a slightly different take on it. Education.

So it's using AI for education, personalized learning. As I mentioned earlier, we've got the old format of education, go to school, go to class, teacher talks you on, you take notes, you memorize stuff, you read the book, you memorize it, you take a test, you pass, you fail. Many people are proficient in that area and can retain information and they truly learn.

I think a lot of people don't learn. I mean, I felt like I was one of the ones, granted I goofed off a lot, but I didn't retain the information. I didn't pass the tests.

I didn't learn. I think, and there are plenty of people out there who memorize and pass the test, but they don't learn. We need to change that.

And we all learn in a different way. Right? So if we were able to put on, I mean, nowadays it's going to be either a screen in front of us or VR goggles, and we have an AI person, and it could be anyone, it could be a celebrity, it could be anything we want them to be, but they've got our vitals.

They know, basically you come in, you put on your goggles, you look at the screen and your AI person comes up and starts a discussion. Hey, how are you doing this morning? How's it going?

Oh, you know, I was doing okay. My brother was bothering me and my mom and dad got into a fight. And it knows how to respond.

Oh, it sounds like you had a rough morning. Well, you need some time. Do you want to go out and have a snack first before we start? 

Or how about if we pick up on yesterday's discussion of physics using the baseball metaphor, because I know you love baseball. And Bobby's over in the corner, and he's working on this project. And you guys are actually kind of doing the same thing. 

So why don't you spend an hour with him to do that? And oh, it looks like you're getting tired. Well, you know, that's cool. Why don't you go outside and take a walk for a little while and do that? Or, you know, it seems like you've had a lot today. You've got a lot on your mind.

Hey, you know what, your parents, you know, that happens with relationships. And your brother, you know, he's just grown. And that's his way of showing that he loves you. 

And let's call it quits for the day. But, you know, cheer up and have a good day and think happy. It's personalized learning with an AI that can read your biometrics and your vitals.

 And I know that's scary to give that over. I am talking about hypothetical future ideas where we're not worried about the government or any sort of large corporation having your information. But in this imaginary world in my head, that would be so essential.

And you're not falling behind now in class because you're staying up with the AI. And perhaps there, certainly there is a human that's keeping track of where everyone is in the process and the education. And no longer are you in first grade, second grade, third grade.

There's different metrics. And you're having strengths in this area. And so you're not needing to do as much.

But you're having weaknesses in this area. So they're hitting it from different angles and different ways and finding out your best modality for learning. That is what I think is the next, I think, I think the next step in our educational evolution.

Because the technology is pretty much almost there. Our fear, rightfully so, of large corporations and governments having access to our information, our vitals. I mean, I could make the argument that we already put it out there on all our social media.

But I understand there's a solid argument against me. I think that could take us one of these next steps in our evolution. I really do.

I really do. And I've heard it from a number of people out there. And I'm trying to find all the organizations that are working in that direction.

I'm very optimistic about educational technology. The way that I look at it is the, you know, I have a three year old daughter, and I look at her as a plant. And if I give her the right amount of water, the right amount of this, the right amount of fertilizer, everything, she's going to grow to her fullest potential.

Right. And part of that, whether we want to admit it or not, is things that you talked about, which is just like, emotional, emotional nutrients, educational nutrients, you know, morality nutrients, like these are things that we don't we don't really have an understanding of yet. But hopefully with enough data, enough resources, we could be able to…

And school doesn’t really teach those. Sorry, go ahead.

No, it's totally fine. I totally agree. It doesn't.

It doesn't teach us because we don't know what we don't know. Right. We don't we only know that they need to know math. They need to know social studies. They need to know things. But we don't know what they need on a psychological level, on an emotional level, on a morality level.

We don't know what it is that this person is lacking. And hopefully the personally personalized assistant, that person can get the nutrients that they need at the appropriate time at the appropriate level to maximize their human potential, which is all of what Star Trek was about is about maximizing human potential. And I certainly agree with that.

I actually I have a three year old daughter, like I was telling you, I bought her this little dinosaur that speaks to her. It has this artificial intelligence, you know, just like a chat bot that is able to speak with her. And and it's great.

You know, she she has conversation with it. It could tell her a joke. And, you know, maybe I might not be as available as I could be, but at least she has this thing.

I think that's going to be the future. Like my kid may have a more profound relationship with an artificial general intelligence than, you know, an actual human being. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that because human beings are limited in the capabilities and responding to the needs of another human being.

And hopefully the the AI will be better at that. But certainly a lot of. Yeah, yeah. Certainly a lot of negatives that could be associated with them. I'm very much like you. I'm very optimistic about it.

Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot of fear and rightfully so because, you know, bad actors have used technology. It's with any great technology, you know, comes the great responsibility, as cliche as that is to say, it's still the case. And, you know, once you do have access to to someone's to everything about them, that's that's that's a big responsibility.

We need to, you know, I don't know where, how, I don't know how. Apple or the next Apple or Microsoft or the next Microsoft is going to win over the trust of people. I just I don't know at what point people start to say, oh, this new organization, they're required to satisfy these rules and they're governed by this oversight committee that makes sure they're ethically this and that if it can ever get to the point where we're like, you know what, I will give you all of my stuff and I will put my child in your care.

And here's all the information on my child so that your AI can better assist my child become a better human being.

Yeah, I mean, I think I think we're I think we're already there, man. I think that, you know, the majority of daycares these days are private enterprises, you know, so we're we're giving our children over to these corporations that have an express incentive to make money. But I think that there there is that express incentive.

But there's also this idea of people, good people that are going into this field that want it. Like, I genuinely think that the daycare that I'm sending my kid to has her best interests at heart, even though I know it's a business. And even though I know and it's the same with medicine, right?

Like there's there's certainly a commercial incentive to, to do as much surgery as possible. But then you have people that are actually doing the surgery that are in it for the right reasons. And so just like Star Trek taught me is that even in the best situations, you can still have bad actors.

I think that as long as the overarching goals are positive, and you have good people associated with them that it'll turn out okay, just like MLK used to say, you know, that the arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice. I think that that's, that's going to happen for the human race, too. But, you know, that's me.

I love your optimism. Yeah, no, no, I need this. I need this. 

Please keep going.

Yeah, no, I listen, I got a lot of it from the intellectual properties that that your family has created. And so you know, I kudos to you guys for inspiring. I know so many people, I live so close to MIT, right?

Like, I'm just a stone's throw away from it. And so many people have been inspired by the works of Star Trek. And, and really, I don't think there's a better utopian vision of humanity out there.

I've got one. And I don't know if I'm going to say better. Sometimes better right now. Have you seen the Orville?

No, actually, I have my next podcast. My next podcast guest  is writing is he's a writer on the Orville. And I'm actually I'm, it's on my docket of things to look at.

But isn't it is it is it not just a parody of Star Trek, though?

A parody of Star Trek is certainly not the right way to call. I frickin love it.

Okay.

Seth MacFarlane, you know, I think he, if you ever get to interview him, he would get along with you. I've had the opportunity to talk to him a few times. We're of the same mindset when it comes to Star Trek, the Next Generation in particular, and what the future should be.

And this was his love letter to Star Trek, the Next Generation and to all Star Trek fans. And the parody, the comedy part of it, it was, these are one hour, whatever 42 minute stories, or 50 minute stories that have ethics, morals, messaging, sci-fi, good dialogue. But what he had to do, because he's Seth MacFarlane is put in some comedy.

And the first season was like just these one-liner quips, these sort of like, you know, and your mother or whatever, it's, it's just them kind of throwing these one-liners out every now and then. But the stories are solid. And the points of view and showing both sides of a social situation and the rights and wrongs and the complexities.

They do an excellent job, just like the Next Generation throughout all current three seasons. And you know, like any show, there's winners and losers episodes, but I highly, highly, highly recommend anyone out there who likes Star Trek, and in particular, the Next Generation to watch this. It is, I don't know what to say.

I'm not paid by them. I don't work for them. I don't, I don't even know Seth that well. 

I just think it is phenomenal.

I'm literally gonna… it's on my…

I'd like to work for them. By the way, I'd like to work for them.

Hopefully, we'll throw it out there. And maybe you'll get a call. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna check it out.

And, you know, like I was saying, my next podcast guest was a writer, one of the producers on there. 

We're getting close to our time. So I don't want to, you know, belabor too much of the just like the, the over optimism that I have, for everything that that humanity holds, and a lot of the fact that has been inspired by you, but I did want to ask you the three general questions that I asked all of my guests.

Where do you see humanity in 10 years? How do you feel? Like, where do you feel optimistic about it? Do you feel pessimistic about it? And specifically, follow up question that is like, you know, what's next for you? What's next for you over the next decade?

Oh, I feel like because I'm on the show, I'm going to say something optimistic. I struggle every goddamn day, pardon my language, with what our future is going to be every single day. And I talked to as many people as I can, because it's nice to have all the different perspectives.

I can easily go down the rabbit hole. I fear as I've said, as I've said many times in this about our global, but also the education in America. And again, remember, when I say education, I don't just mean science, history, math, math technology.

I'm hoping that there's a lot of brilliant people out there. And if we can, if we as a species can learn to accept to change a bit more. And that's a hard ask, because it depends on who's making the change and what the changes.

I think we can try and fail and try and succeed at a few new things that will hopefully get us and maybe revamping education that can make a younger generation lift us up and better us all and get us to that brighter future. If we don't allow for, if we don't start allowing more change in our lives, and again, more education based change, then I don't know what's going to happen. I really don't.

I don't think we're going to poof and disappear exactly. But you know, there's, there could be some catastrophic setbacks. I don't know what they are.

I really don't. And I don't want to focus on those. As I've gotten older, I've started to appreciate, you know, what a lot of people have already started told me for many years, and this optimism.

I mean, this is why I'm glad you have this show, having a positive outlook. And I used to say, you know, if I just have a fake positive outlook, that's not going to change anything. I'm just lying to myself.

Well, that's not exactly true. I think the message is, if you wake up in the morning, and can think positive things, and say positive things, I don't care if it's a mantra or what do they call it? You project your vision out there. 

Anyhow, if you can say today, I'm going to go on the treadmill, and I'm going to exercise, and I'm going to talk to my boss, and have that discussion about the raise I wanted, and I'm going to be happy, and I'm going to smile at my neighbors. And I'm going to smile as I walk down the street. And if you actually, I've done it, say that to yourselves, and you've got to start off small, it changes.

That small change kind of grows within you. And as you smile as you walk down the street, that guy walking past you, that guy smiles. And you're like, oh, all right, that seems like a nice guy.

And as you interact, and you take these chances, and you talk to your boss about the raise, and maybe they say no to what you're asking, but give you a step up. You're like, oh, okay, not exactly what I wanted. It does make a difference.

If you spend every morning saying, oh, it sucks, everything's horrible. The world's going to end. It's a pretty dreadful day.

It's a pretty dreadful day. So again, to be clear, I'm not saying magically, mystically, hocus pocus. If you just say, I'm going to be happy today, you're going to be happy.

You got to kind of put in your mindset what you're going to do, and how you're going to be happy, and the things that you're going to try. It won't work out perfectly, but it will over time expand, and I think you will have more of a positive outlook. And I'm working on that on myself right now, because I got a lot of negativity about the world right now. 

And I am noticing just going on my walks, and smiling, and listening to music, and kind of getting in that zone, and seeing people, and kind of nodding to them, and smiling, and they do it. But there's sort of like, okay, we're all good people here. It's just a little bit. 

So anyhow, that's my long winded way of saying, project happiness.

Yeah. I think that one of the things that I learned from Star Trek that really got me on this track is the whole idea of us being explorers, right? When we're looking at the world as just like this smorgasbord of all these different things that you can experience, and try, and all this stuff, that's when it really opens up, I think, to just, man, like, there's just so many awesome things that could happen.

You know, like, even just like music, right? When you were talking, and you're going for your walks, and there's so much good music out there, you know? And you could be very pessimistic and say, like, okay, current music is not great.

But there is more past amazing music that you could listen to, that could fill your entire lifetime, you know? And that's one of the things I loved about Star Trek is, like, the universe was so vast, right? I think people get caught up in, like, their situations as being such like an end-all be-all.

And they're very, like, you know, they feel like they're in this box. And if you look at yourself as an explorer, similar to all of the different Star Trek series that were out there, it just opens up this idea that, man, there's just so much awesome stuff out there, you know? Hence the name Dr. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I love what you're saying, because it plays to something that you're very familiar with, the IDIC philosophy, right? I-D-I-C, which is sort of the backbone of Star Trek. And for those who don't know, infinite diversity from infinite combinations.

The idea is the true appreciation of everything different, because that's how you grow and evolve as a person and as a species. So in Star Trek, they weren't just on a spaceship going through our galaxy, looking for strange-looking aliens. We as a species had come together at that point and realized that working together was great.

And we realized that it is what's unique and different that is exciting. So we were now reaching out into our galaxy to find other intelligent life that looks at the universe and looks at life and looks at everything in a different way, because we knew that from their diverse way of thinking, we may not agree with all of it, but it gives us more data and more information, and we can evolve our current way of thinking and grow it with that extra and more knowledge. And so truly Star Trek is the search for knowledge and self-growth and self-expansion and human expansion.

So that goes back to what we started with the beginning of this. We need to grow intellectually as a species, and in Star Trek, they are doing that. It is essential.

That is the ultimate purpose in life. Whether you're a scientist in the medical field, or you're a landscaper, or you're a painter, whatever the case may be, it's always about trying new things, having new experiences, and growing. And that's what Star Trek is. It's built in.

Yeah. So what's next for you, man? What's coming down the pipeline for you and all of the different properties that you're currently managing?

The stories on Gene Roddenberry are, in terms of professional entertainment world stuff, that is certainly one of them. I can't say I've got anything right now huge in the pipeline from Roddenberry that's coming out that everyone should watch for now. Certainly when we do, we'll make all of our announcements.

You know, I'm not an old man. I'm not a young man. I've got an 11-year-old boy. I'm focusing on my life and my health and my happiness right now. I'm eager to travel. I'm eager to travel with my son.

So I want to say I'm in a transition, but I feel like I'm transitioning from a career focus to more of a life focus a little bit more. I'm privileged, and I have the opportunity to do that, and I'm taking that opportunity. It doesn't mean I'm leaving entertainment, certainly not leaving Star Trek.

I'm just going to find out new outlets to get Star Trek out there, and I don't know what that'll be. I don't know if that's speaking, writing. Who knows? Who knows what it'll be? I'm still figuring it out.

Cool, man. So normally I would ask, like we were talking about earlier, there are certain technologies that outside of the medical field, which is my field of interest, I just can't get enough of. Breakthroughs are happening across industries at an exponential rate.

 Whether it's biotech, like we talked about, robotics, artificial intelligence, the change is happening faster and faster. There are certain industries for me that I just can't get enough of, and normally I would ask, like, you know, Rod, what is your favorite technology or field of growth that you're following on a regular basis? But I would be remiss, you said you had an 11-year-old son. I have a daughter, and wouldn't you say, I guess this is a question that I've always wanted to ask. Wouldn't you say that Star Trek is like the best vision of masculinity that's out there right now?

I feel like, you know, you have a son that you're raising. You know, when I look at, like, what is the man that I want to be like? I want to be like Picard. I want to be like Geordi. I want to be like all these different characters that were out there that were good men. But for whatever reason, you know, we're kind of going in a different direction now.

Yeah. I don't know if this is exactly your question, but I mean, you certainly hit on role models in Star Trek and, you know, what it is to be your best self, male or female. You know, normally I would say, you know, Picard was a favorite character because he, even though he was young, he kind of looked like an old man, but he was never the action hero.

But he had a crew around him that he respected and that respected him. His leadership skill was respecting the people that he put in charge of their areas and then asking them for their analysis, their advice, their position on whatever was going on. And then he would take all that from the different points of view and then as a leader, make an informed decision on that.

And it was never a decision of to shoot, kill, fight first. It was how do we find a peaceful solution? And as a male lead of a ship like that, as a captain, he was always trying to find peace and he was never giving up hope on a peaceful resolution.

And there was, I can't remember the episode and I will not remember the dialogue, but it was something like, what happens if it doesn't succeed? Well, then we'll try again. What if it happens if that doesn't work?

We'll try again. We will keep trying and trying and trying until we cannot try anymore. And that is not the typical leadership or male sort of idea that's sort of put out there.

I also love Anson Mount playing Pike in Strange New Worlds. His first appearance on Discovery in season two, I believe episode one, he got in front of the view screen on the bridge and addressed his crew and he said, I'm not like the previous captain. And he listed his flaws and he said, I am only as strong as we are together. 

I can't do this without you. We have to work as a team. And he showed his grades from Starfleet Academy and he's like, I flunked out of this class.

He showed his weakness and he said, the only way we can be strong is again together. And that kind of, again, male or female leadership, but being a human, we can all be leaders and being that kind of human, I think is again, essential to us evolving together. And then back, sorry, I'll just say Voyager, brain issue.

What was the captain's name? I'm going to get in trouble for this. Janeway.

Janeway, I'm sick of all these tough female lead actresses or the people who are writing for them where they just have to be action heroes and they have these one-liners and they're badass and yeah, and I can beat you up and all this kind of stuff. Janeway was, she was strong. She was compassionate.

She could lead. She listened to the people around her. She said no, when she had to say no, she stood up for what her position was.

That is a strong woman. It don't have to be an ass kicker. That doesn't convey strong woman.

That conveys, in my opinion, a less intelligent person who doesn't know how to solve a situation without beating someone up. And that's what Star Trek is. That's what humanity is and that's what we need for our future.

Yeah. What a way to end it. I think that's a great way that we can talk about all of our aspirations for both ourselves and our kids.

You know, I think that it's going to be a really great one and kudos to you and your family for creating an idea that really has persisted across generations to give us a North Star to look forward to. So thank you so much for joining us. It was really a pleasure speaking with you and thank you so much to all of our subscribers and people who tune in on a regular basis.

We could not do this without your support. If you don't mind hitting the like and subscribe button and for those of you guys who tune in on a regular basis, we will see you again in the future. Thanks everybody.

Live long and prosper.